I caught up with Ian Simpson over the weekend at Harrogate. Ian is a really top grower and was to the fore in several classes despite having a lot of his produce pinched from his allotment. His stunning stump carrots (below) deservedly took the premier award of best in show. He has limited space and facilities however.
As well as being a really great grower he's also a top bloke and talks an awful lot of sense when it comes to the future of our veg shows. At the NVS's AGM to be held on the 29th September at Malvern he has put forward a motion to reduce the quantities called for in 4 of the National classes, namely long carrots, parsnips, long beet and blanch leeks. 5 are currently required and he and several others, myself included, are calling for that to be reduced to three. So-called purists have criticised us, saying that you should have to bench more specimens in a class because 'It's the National!' If that is the case then why are the quantities for potatoes (5) and 250g onions (5) the same as they are in all the Branch Championships? Those classes are ALWAYS well supported with entries.
At last year's National in Llangollen, there were only 3 entries of blanch leeks. That was in Wales, the home of the leek for fuck's sake! Ronnie Jackson has won the British Leek Championships a couple of times when it is held annually as part of the Welsh Branch CHampionships. He came 3rd at Harrogate this weekend in the National Leek Championships. Both classes call for three leeks. He has never competed in the National with blanch leeks because of the quantity differential.......and it has to be said the prize money isn't that great compared to the effort involved. Jim Williams, National Scottish Branch Chairman is another good leek grower who has never exhibited blanch leeks at National level.
For Harrogate I prepared a total of 5 long carrots, 3 for the National Carrot Championships, 1 for the Tap Root Class and one for the 6x1 class. Quite frankly I was utterly pissed off with carrots by the time I'd finished! One of the country's top growers was present at Harrogate and I won't name him but he is vehemently against the class quantity reduction idea. He retired early from work and can devote his whole life to growing for show if he so chooses. He has several large allotments and gardens i'm told. I'm not criticising anyone who wants to do this, or who is lucky enough to have the facilities, but he and one or two others like him cannot go on forever, but while they do entries will continue to dwindle in the nation's premier vegetable show.
I overheard him say that he had never won the National Carrot Championships before although he has come 2nd on several occasions. I venture to suggest that if the class had called for 5 long carrots and 5 stumps he would have won it several times before now! By reducing it more folk like myself would be prepared to have a go just to see what your produce looks like against the very best, and the top blokes like Ronnie and Jim would definitely have a go....and they'd probably win tickets. In effect it would be making it easier to enter, but much harder to win, contrary to what several people have said to me that it would be easier to win. Far, far from it.
I have to say I don't particularly give a fish's fuck if the motion doesn't get passed at Malvern, as I have more important things in my life than veg. It just seems to make sense to me that if the Society is to continue into the future they need to encourage the keen as mustard smaller scale exhibitor with limited facilities. I would urge anyone who is an NVS member to attend the AGM and make sure their vote counts......whichever way you agree with.
21 comments:
Is there a postal vote option?
'fraid not Colin, although I believe they will look into this option at some point.
Hi Simon . How deep do you need boxes, Tubs etc. for stump carrots.
Thanks in advance.
I appreciate that it’s the World Championships, but I really think it’s asking a lot of amateur growers to produce such a quantity. Why not reconsider and go for either 6 plates of four or four plates of six, what do you think? It’s better to have a table full of exhibits rather than 4 or 5 entries for such a prestigious competition.
The above was copied direct from Medwyns blog - he's talking about the World potato Championships but it's the same argument !!
Old Dinosaurs !!
The sort of growers who would never divulge any of their secrets to help anyone because they're scared of being beaten,and only compete at the nationals because they have enough time and space to grow the enormous quantities needed to show the increased number of exhibits per class,Not all but plenty of 'em.
What I loved about Harrogate this year was the fact that loads of the winners and placers had gained a lot their info and knowledge about how to grow their stuff from other growers who like your self share their tips and info online without fear of being beaten themselves.
Oh how some of the old faces who were beaten by the young upstarts looked...it was bloody priceless.
As for the reduction in exhibit size,at the Olympics they don't have to run a 52 mile marathon or fire at a smaller Archery Target do they.
It's a level playing field and hopefully the cream should always rise to the top.
But this will never happen if the exhibit quantity is so large as to exclude all but time rich, well-acred grower.
No postal vote eh ?
Yet again plenty of the non retired folk,after a week of work aren't really going to want to drive all the way to Malvern just to make their opinion felt.
Get into the 21st Century NVS,Stop wearing all those ridiculous looking chains of office that make the heirarchy look like a cross between a bunch of Freemasons and Lord Mayors and have a free vote from YOUR Members via the post as to whether or not the class sizes should be reduced to normal branch sizes at the National.
It'll never happen but that's my two penneth worth.
To the last post why dont you name yoursef.why do you have to sound so bitter,denegrate people who are retired - and who had the drive to do it as well when they were working- the vast majority of people who have won at National level have gone out their way to encourage and promote other people. You dont need enormous quantities just a determination to actually aim for a National.. Do you want a free vote on every aspect of running the Society instead of people you elect - or are you just content to expound your vitriol when it suits you. Perhaps you dont think that everybody should have an opinion and that you are right - that doesnt give you the right to be nasty.So whoever you are have the guts to identify yourself so that a proper debate can be had- not the crap that you are coming out with.as for time rich and acres of space - grow up and get in the real world- or are you just whining because you arent good enough so everybody has to come down to your level with reduced numbers and quality??
If the numbers were reduced then there would be a level playing field,open to all growers whether retired or not.
So why are you against the reduction Ian.?
Don't you agree that classes that would attract more entrants would be beneficial to both the Show,the paying public as a spectacle and be more encouraging to growers who might have a chance of entering 3 rather than 5.
What's so fantastic about going to a National Show when there aren't even enough exhibits in certain classes to use up all the prize cards.
Please justify why you think the National Champs should have a greater number over Branch competitions.
P.S you set off saying I'm being nasty and then end up being totally disrespectful and patronising to me and being downright rude yourself.
You really are a proper hypocrite.
National Standard !
Until you actually identify yourself instead of hiding - and firing off under that banner of anonymity- why should i even consider debating this with you. Although i would point out that at no point have i said that there should not be a reduction in certain classes. If you check your facts you would find that i am actually in favour of that.
So get off your white charger and have the guts to identify yourself
Wow!
Right lets address a few points here....and as this is a long answer I have to do it over a couple of postings.
First and foremost this issue simply CANNOT be allowed to split our wonderful Society. If the vote goes for keeping things as they are then so be it, we all just have to get on with things and work together. I'm lending my (not inconsiderable) weight behind it simply because I believe it's plain as day necessary for the future of our veg shows as a whole, not just the National Championships. I've had great success in increasing entries when I've been instrumental in reducing quantities and mixing things up a bit at local shows.
When I've referred to 'old dinosaurs' in the past I hope people realise I've done it tongue in cheek. This isn't an attack on the older showman with more time, retired people or those with lots of space to pursue their hobby. Fair play to them I say and good luck. Let's face it, one day we'll all be old dinosaurs ourselves, and some of us are closer than others. I have quite a large garden and when i'm retired I want to be able to devote more time, space and (hopefully) energy to growing for show. But I certainly wouldn't want to be one of only a handful or people doing it come the time, hence why I think this is such an important subject with a potentially huge impact on the future of the Society.
Anonymous....I can understand your frustration and to a certain point I agree with much of what you say (and of course it's your right to stay anonymous if you so wish!) but this issue isn't black and white. You probably don't know Ian but before I could give out my knowledge I had to get the knowledge from more experienced growers and Ian was one of those who has been very generous with his information to me and many others. I may not agree with the viewpoint of some on the NEC but at the end of the day they are doing it volountarily and it's the easiest thing in the World to have a snipe at them. Having served on several committees and being a Company Director I know how impossible it is to please everyone all of the time. I for one am quite happy to let them get on with managing the Society and I'm content that on this subject they are allowing a vote to go to the AGM. But once it's been voted on then that will have to be an end to it and I shall be content to carry on regardless of the outcome. As Ian says you can't put everything to a vote and someone has to be charged with leading the Society.
On the subject of postal voting this problem has been discussed I believe and the NEC would like to bring this option in some time in the not too distant future. However, I also understand that it's not as simple as people think and it would cost quite a bit of money. As a registered charity the NVS has to be careful what they spend and how, so for now I don't think it's been identified as a pressing problem. Don't forget, it would need to be organised by people who are not paid and who give up their free time anyway so we all have to be a bit patient on this and other matters that perhaps don't happen quite as quickly as we would be used to in daily life.
Harrogate was great for seeing new faces in the tickets. I spent several hours going from one chat to another when years ago I would mooch around the benches keeping my own counsel and for me the social side is way more important than winning a few tickets with your name on. A big plus for me was having my wife with me staging through the night (and enjoying it!) and being able to partake in some of the conversations I was having. It's that kind of inclusivity we should be promoting and why I will always be working to try and get as many people interested in the hobby and feeling as if they belong to a society/group/club. At our local show on Saturday a 7 year old boy took most points in the children's section and he's keen as mustard about showing veg, so I gave him my copy of the NVS booklet on growing to show to read for the next year. With a bit of encouragement he'll be stopping me from getting red cards when i'm retired and I'll be chuffed about that.
Dave......I think I replied to that comment by Medwyn on his blog and he was good enough to let it be published, as I am happy to let all sensible comments be published on my blog. As Medwyn said following that, he is in two minds about quantity reductions for the National and I can fully understand his reluctance. He and others have won many Nationals when the quantities were more than they are even now and we all have something within us that doesn't want to let go of the past I guess.
To recap, this isn't about dumbing down the National. I believe the same faces will still be winning if the motion is passed. But it would allow more growers like me to enter long beet/blanch leeks/parsnips and long carrots yet still be able support several local shows with entries and thus be around to encourage those growers just starting out.
(Pete.....2' depth would be ideal, 20" sufficient.)
Wow indeed!! Anyone who knows me from the NVS Forum will know that I'm really hugely against folks hiding as anonymous. In a humorous context it can be fine but it's really not on to have a go at folks in that manner on serious issues. I can fully understand Ian's response.
yups, I have a user name on here but Forum user's will know me as Frank Taylor.
It's a serious subject and it is good it is getting an airing but for goodness sake, let's all play nicely. As Simon says, we have a wonderful Society and part of the wonder is that folks like Ian bend over backwards to help novice and less experienced growers even although that may well lead to the pupil beating the master on the show bench. Where else do you see folks encouraging competition as Ian does? I take my hat off to him and the others like him.
I'm in favour of a reduction in class sizes but we need to be realistic. We all know if we need 5 that we will only get 4 and if we need 4 we can only get 3. It's called tough luck. I had 4 super long beet last year but the 5th is still growing :)
Well done Simon for raising the issue :)
I had decided to keep my feelings on this issue to myself as I've only been showing for a short time and an NVS member for less, but the earlier anonymous post has really got under my skin!
I am, like many, growing in a very limited space and presently growing far too many different kinds of veg - a mistake almost everyone makes when they are starting out.
But it is my belief that the 'National' should be the premier show of the year where as many good growers as possible should be aiming to enter, thus creating the spectacle it should be.
All of these growers are more than capable of staging an entry, irrespective of the quantity, but most are unwilling to allocate the requisite proportion of their available stock because they have targetted a number of other shows!
Now this is entirely their right to do so, and these other shows will obviously benefit from their decision, but it is wrong in my opinion, to then try and dilute the premier show because of the choices they have made.
You don't need huge space to be able to show there - IF your veg is grown properly, and you grow specifically for this show.
I have not shown stump carrots at most of my local shows this year and have around 70 left to try for a set of 5.
IF i've grown them properly, I won't need anything like 70. If I haven't, then they may well not be good enough to show, and I'll only have myself to blame (or the weather!). But even as much as 70 stumps can easily be grown in an area 4'6" x 9', and most people could easily allocate an area of that size if they so wanted.
I am going to steal a view from a very close friend of mine, but it's a view I wholeheartedly share!
Let's please get away from the 'negative' mentality of reducing class numbers, but instead turn it into a 'positive' debate of trying to find ways of increasing entries by other means, while still preserving the event as the ultimate goal for any grower!
Nicely put Neil
As for people commenting anonymously I really have no problem with it, we live in a free country. Thank fuck our general elections are secret ballots otherwise I'd get my windows bricked in when people found out I vote Tory! As it is no fucker knows and my windows are safe!
Thanks Simon.
Wow indeed!
I understand you are all passionate about your ‘hobby’ however can I think some perspective is needed. As Simon said in his original post at the end of the day all we are talking about here is growing veg and supposedly for fun and as a hobby. There are far more important things going on in the world, for instance the service men and women in Afghanistan who are facing increasing danger, one of which is our daughter’s partner. The list of what really matters in life is a long one and growing veg for showing surely doesn’t even feature.
I don’t get involved with the growing but am lucky enough to have met some lovely people through Simon’s hobby and have some enjoyable fun times. Isn’t that what a hobby should be about?
Sorry if I’ve offended anyone by not getting what the fuss is all about but having said that I do support the view that for this hobby not to die out and to be accessible to more people then something needs to be done to make it easier to get involved, whatever that may be but if nothing changes so be it, its not worth getting stressed about!
Over the years i've learned it's wise not to answer my wife back so I think I'll lockdown these comments from now.
Let's just see what occurs and work together whatever the outcome.
John Martin (Hoss or "ontheplot") As a new grower and shower and member of the NVS I can see both sides of this debate. However what ever side the vote falls on lets just get on with it. I can only agree with Simon regards the help that Ian and other experienced members of the NVS have given me. Also the enjoyment I get from their banter. So lets work to ensure more people get to enjoy our great hobby.
Simon sorry if my post .Was a load drivel.Hope i did not offend.
Not at all Pete. Just decided to stop all further debate.
That is good as I can see it is a delicate subject.
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